Have re-read this again this morning and still don't understand what you are trying to say. So people we talk to are either capable of extreme goodness or extreme badness? Surely that is not true. Why does it not depend on our basic tendency (genes) and our environment (upbringing) . Therefore we have limited free will depending on the two factors. Miracles seem a bit irrelevant in this context
You can still have hope without bringing god into it considering what a failure he's apparently made of the world. And those that say they believe in God go on to mistreat others like the Israei's do to the Palestinians
I can't quite believe you still read these enraging articles, but impressed you do! I'm interested by your last comment. You seem quite angry about a god you don't believe in. And how the world should be given there is no guiding moral or spiritual force. I'm not quite sure how you put them together.
Hi Lizzy and James. Am thinking of posting a longer response to you James but it's late/early now and your post has stopped me sleeping as my mind is already formulating it, so just a quick note. What I don't understand , as an atheist, is why you, James, say " not believing in miracles is the most intolerable bourden". To me , believing in miracles is like believing in homeopathy or that pigs are objects of revulsion. Maybe I am missing something in your post James and yours Lizzy ( what on earth do you mean igniting or quenching something per time - that makes no sense to me ) but it all seems a bit wishy washy poetic ramblings.
Sorry if I offend you but it always seems to come round to God ie you must believe or else!
You already know by now that waffling and ramblings are abundant in these paths so no surprises there for you. I’m not inclined to expatiate on my thoughts because you’d end up enraged if I explained the Bible verse I had in mind when I wrote it; stoking fires is not an activity that interests me.
Say, have you thought of taking up the grudges you have against God with Him? He’s surely not deaf that He won’t hear, all depends on if you’re willing to engage.
Strange isn't it. I criticise god and I'm supposed to be angry (you James) or have a grudge (you Kizzy) No it just irritates me that you appear to be so arrogant that you seem to think you have the absolute truth and don't seem to understand how illogical and nasty (evil) the whole concept is to someone who doesn't believe.
I don't blame you for your belief as I don't think you can help it as it's just the way your brains work. I'm just vaguely interested in how this works and why believers find it difficult to even consider this.
What I do get annoyed about is the virtual silence, apart from a bit of hand wringing, from the church about the continual persecution of the Palestinians by the Israelis ever since 1945 in a part of the world where your belief is said to have started. And they seem to think they are a democracy as opposed to an Zionist apartheid state with their Nation State Law etc and can just steal land from the Palestinians without any repercussions. And we started it all with the Balfour declaration so have some basic responsibility, as we have with all the rest of the mess in the world.
I'm not a supported of Zionism, and don't think the Bible justified it, although I can see where it comes from. I would disagree with some Christians over the reading of that text, and some readings are better than others. I believe in Truth. I suspect you do as well, but I've never really understood the philosophical basis for that within atheism. If we're just meaningless molecules that made a one in a zillion chance leap into amino acid and protein form, and the one in a zillion chance leap into some form on consciousness, where is the basis for a coherent and shared morality. What/who would you suggest I read on that subject as it makes no sense to me, from where I am?
Hi James
Have re-read this again this morning and still don't understand what you are trying to say. So people we talk to are either capable of extreme goodness or extreme badness? Surely that is not true. Why does it not depend on our basic tendency (genes) and our environment (upbringing) . Therefore we have limited free will depending on the two factors. Miracles seem a bit irrelevant in this context
You can still have hope without bringing god into it considering what a failure he's apparently made of the world. And those that say they believe in God go on to mistreat others like the Israei's do to the Palestinians
I can't quite believe you still read these enraging articles, but impressed you do! I'm interested by your last comment. You seem quite angry about a god you don't believe in. And how the world should be given there is no guiding moral or spiritual force. I'm not quite sure how you put them together.
There’s no doubt that we’re always igniting or quenching something per time. The question is what, and what?
Thanks for another thought-provoking read James.
Hi Lizzy and James. Am thinking of posting a longer response to you James but it's late/early now and your post has stopped me sleeping as my mind is already formulating it, so just a quick note. What I don't understand , as an atheist, is why you, James, say " not believing in miracles is the most intolerable bourden". To me , believing in miracles is like believing in homeopathy or that pigs are objects of revulsion. Maybe I am missing something in your post James and yours Lizzy ( what on earth do you mean igniting or quenching something per time - that makes no sense to me ) but it all seems a bit wishy washy poetic ramblings.
Sorry if I offend you but it always seems to come round to God ie you must believe or else!
Hello Tomasz
You already know by now that waffling and ramblings are abundant in these paths so no surprises there for you. I’m not inclined to expatiate on my thoughts because you’d end up enraged if I explained the Bible verse I had in mind when I wrote it; stoking fires is not an activity that interests me.
Say, have you thought of taking up the grudges you have against God with Him? He’s surely not deaf that He won’t hear, all depends on if you’re willing to engage.
Strange isn't it. I criticise god and I'm supposed to be angry (you James) or have a grudge (you Kizzy) No it just irritates me that you appear to be so arrogant that you seem to think you have the absolute truth and don't seem to understand how illogical and nasty (evil) the whole concept is to someone who doesn't believe.
I don't blame you for your belief as I don't think you can help it as it's just the way your brains work. I'm just vaguely interested in how this works and why believers find it difficult to even consider this.
What I do get annoyed about is the virtual silence, apart from a bit of hand wringing, from the church about the continual persecution of the Palestinians by the Israelis ever since 1945 in a part of the world where your belief is said to have started. And they seem to think they are a democracy as opposed to an Zionist apartheid state with their Nation State Law etc and can just steal land from the Palestinians without any repercussions. And we started it all with the Balfour declaration so have some basic responsibility, as we have with all the rest of the mess in the world.
I'm not a supported of Zionism, and don't think the Bible justified it, although I can see where it comes from. I would disagree with some Christians over the reading of that text, and some readings are better than others. I believe in Truth. I suspect you do as well, but I've never really understood the philosophical basis for that within atheism. If we're just meaningless molecules that made a one in a zillion chance leap into amino acid and protein form, and the one in a zillion chance leap into some form on consciousness, where is the basis for a coherent and shared morality. What/who would you suggest I read on that subject as it makes no sense to me, from where I am?
It makes sense when you follow the golden rule
And what is your philosophical/biological basis for the golden rule if not the Bible?