That wouldn't have been Monkton Combe, would it? I never went, but I have fond memories of my uncle, a long-time housemaster there, now promoted to glory.
Thanks James - really enjoying these. Plenty of ill-formed wonderings prompted. Might see if they've materialised next time I log on to Patreon. This makes me curious to see which incompetencies are happening in North Korea right now. And it raises weird questions about how totalitarianism lasts as long as it does. Which backs up your dark forces point. It's just one other way we dance to the devilish tune of the Ephesians 1&2 lot Jesus totally subdues when we reject wholesale the One who has subdued them.
I was replying to Josh who appeared to be criticising me so if you criticise someone it is just good manners to explain yourself. Otherwise it becomes ad hominem comment
And yet your very first comment on my blog was telling me I was "writing apparently whaffley assertions". That was quite rude and I tried to be gracious about it. But it cuts both ways.
James Coulson of the Watergate Scandal put it this way: “I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren't true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn't keep a lie for three weeks. You're telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.”
Ah. But I don't need to prove anything - I'm not promoting any specific belief in a supernatural event/s in history. Oral tradition is bound to change over the centuries and is notoriously subject the error in repetition
Of course you're promoting a specific belief. You are promoting secularism. It is your right to do that, and I support your free speech. Tolerance is a Christian virtue, ironically, not a secular one so if your team finally wins, I'm extinguished, but I guess we'll see how that's played out.
Not promoting anything, just responding to your statement of belief. I don't see as my evidence for your belief however evil I believe it to be but you are entitled to it
It's not a battle. I just get a little irritated at what I see as your apparent arrogance that you have the truth. Of course I could be wrong about God but I'll take my chances!
I don't mean to sound arrogant about my belief, but I just have supreme and joyful confidence in it and don't feel the need to justify it on my own personal blog. You have confidence in your system which excludes the supernatural. I in mine.
You write “ This is a secret conspiracy that is true. It is also the one that Christians do not need to worry about. The fact is there are dark forces at large in the world. The Bible, which is not fictional, tells us about Satan.”
You claim the bible is not fictional without any evidence to support your assertion but you know it written by men in a strongly paternalistic era when power resided in those who could retain followers. It claims to document what happened about 2000 years ago but you know these earliest fragments were not written contemporaneously with the events they purport to record and you have no way of knowing they are reporting the truth or merely creating a myth to support their vision of how people should live their lives.
On the other hand you also claim ideas such as rigged elections, deep state etc are conspiracy theories, which may be true, but at least with them there is at least contemporary documentation that can be used question or validate the truth of these ideas.
And then you come up with your own greatest conspiracy of all time - “Dark Forces” and “And there are plenty of evil spirits and demons that Western Christians, especially conservative evangelical types, do not talk about”, with no evidence to support it - your very own Dan Brown!
Welcome back! I'm surprised you think I'd be providing supporting evidence for the Bible in a short article where that isn't really the main point. I don't like providing hyperlinks because I think it takes you out of the main flow of the article. Chesterton didn't do hyperlinks, so I'm not sure that I should.
Re: The Bible, I suppose It's easy to theorise along the lines you suggest, but I don't find those theories in the slightest bit convincing. But then, I wouldn't, would I? Presumably you've come across Tyndale House and Pete Williams who could answer you questions, but I'm not sure you'd be convinced. I guess your faith is a strong as mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMNbMBUAKlw
My comment about dark forces also that my own tribe of evangelicals (like STAG which is how we e-met)find demons a bit embarrassing to talk about, although the reasons are understandable. If you believe that Bible is true, then one needs to deal with all of it and explain all of it. I don't think we do a very good job of that.
And if you're only going to read one book, read the book by Jonathan Haidt, a centre-left secular academic that has evidence that we don't think rationally. And the cleverer we are, the more we misjudge this fact. Interesting.
I'll have to send you a list of some of the books I have read and found all wanting. Think it's a waste of time investigating the Bible. Only interesting thing is the scientific reason of why people believe. I'm currently trying to counteract the Covid conspiracy theorists which takes a lot of time as it involves reading many scientific papers so not much time for the supernatural. Just wondering what motivates them. For some at least it is religion so there you go! Might look up Haidt.
I do love how you guys come and troll on blogs and videos that don't address you, and then get all offended when people come back at you. And I know that's not the original meaning of trolling, but it's what it means now, so I'm happy to use it. You should know that your lovely conspiracy theory is as valid as any other ("you know it written (sic) by men in a strongly paternalistic era when power resided in those who could retain followers" etc.), but my experience with "retired atheist scientists" like you and your colleagues is that you're open to anything but the possibility you may be wrong.
That wouldn't have been Monkton Combe, would it? I never went, but I have fond memories of my uncle, a long-time housemaster there, now promoted to glory.
Thanks James - really enjoying these. Plenty of ill-formed wonderings prompted. Might see if they've materialised next time I log on to Patreon. This makes me curious to see which incompetencies are happening in North Korea right now. And it raises weird questions about how totalitarianism lasts as long as it does. Which backs up your dark forces point. It's just one other way we dance to the devilish tune of the Ephesians 1&2 lot Jesus totally subdues when we reject wholesale the One who has subdued them.
Hi. Are you saying I'm writing ill-formed wonderings because I can't see anyone else on this blog? Please explain yourself
I don't really think anyone has to explain themselves on this blog.
I was replying to Josh who appeared to be criticising me so if you criticise someone it is just good manners to explain yourself. Otherwise it becomes ad hominem comment
And yet your very first comment on my blog was telling me I was "writing apparently whaffley assertions". That was quite rude and I tried to be gracious about it. But it cuts both ways.
I did say apparently!
Of course you could have asked me to justify my remark like I did!
James Coulson of the Watergate Scandal put it this way: “I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren't true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn't keep a lie for three weeks. You're telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.”
You have no evidence that 12 people kept any idea for 40 years!
You have no evidence that they didn't. We have strong evidence of an oral tradition - in fact, it's a given in that culture.
Ah. But I don't need to prove anything - I'm not promoting any specific belief in a supernatural event/s in history. Oral tradition is bound to change over the centuries and is notoriously subject the error in repetition
Of course you're promoting a specific belief. You are promoting secularism. It is your right to do that, and I support your free speech. Tolerance is a Christian virtue, ironically, not a secular one so if your team finally wins, I'm extinguished, but I guess we'll see how that's played out.
Not promoting anything, just responding to your statement of belief. I don't see as my evidence for your belief however evil I believe it to be but you are entitled to it
It's not a battle. I just get a little irritated at what I see as your apparent arrogance that you have the truth. Of course I could be wrong about God but I'll take my chances!
I don't mean to sound arrogant about my belief, but I just have supreme and joyful confidence in it and don't feel the need to justify it on my own personal blog. You have confidence in your system which excludes the supernatural. I in mine.
The Greatest conspiracy of all time
Nice try James!
You write “ This is a secret conspiracy that is true. It is also the one that Christians do not need to worry about. The fact is there are dark forces at large in the world. The Bible, which is not fictional, tells us about Satan.”
You claim the bible is not fictional without any evidence to support your assertion but you know it written by men in a strongly paternalistic era when power resided in those who could retain followers. It claims to document what happened about 2000 years ago but you know these earliest fragments were not written contemporaneously with the events they purport to record and you have no way of knowing they are reporting the truth or merely creating a myth to support their vision of how people should live their lives.
On the other hand you also claim ideas such as rigged elections, deep state etc are conspiracy theories, which may be true, but at least with them there is at least contemporary documentation that can be used question or validate the truth of these ideas.
And then you come up with your own greatest conspiracy of all time - “Dark Forces” and “And there are plenty of evil spirits and demons that Western Christians, especially conservative evangelical types, do not talk about”, with no evidence to support it - your very own Dan Brown!
Hugh
Welcome back! I'm surprised you think I'd be providing supporting evidence for the Bible in a short article where that isn't really the main point. I don't like providing hyperlinks because I think it takes you out of the main flow of the article. Chesterton didn't do hyperlinks, so I'm not sure that I should.
Re: The Bible, I suppose It's easy to theorise along the lines you suggest, but I don't find those theories in the slightest bit convincing. But then, I wouldn't, would I? Presumably you've come across Tyndale House and Pete Williams who could answer you questions, but I'm not sure you'd be convinced. I guess your faith is a strong as mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMNbMBUAKlw
My comment about dark forces also that my own tribe of evangelicals (like STAG which is how we e-met)find demons a bit embarrassing to talk about, although the reasons are understandable. If you believe that Bible is true, then one needs to deal with all of it and explain all of it. I don't think we do a very good job of that.
And if you're only going to read one book, read the book by Jonathan Haidt, a centre-left secular academic that has evidence that we don't think rationally. And the cleverer we are, the more we misjudge this fact. Interesting.
I'll have to send you a list of some of the books I have read and found all wanting. Think it's a waste of time investigating the Bible. Only interesting thing is the scientific reason of why people believe. I'm currently trying to counteract the Covid conspiracy theorists which takes a lot of time as it involves reading many scientific papers so not much time for the supernatural. Just wondering what motivates them. For some at least it is religion so there you go! Might look up Haidt.
I can't see how investigating the Bible is a waste of time given it's the single most significant book in human history.
I would argue for On the Origin of Species
Why is it any more than books of the Jews , Muslims, etc etc?
I do love how you guys come and troll on blogs and videos that don't address you, and then get all offended when people come back at you. And I know that's not the original meaning of trolling, but it's what it means now, so I'm happy to use it. You should know that your lovely conspiracy theory is as valid as any other ("you know it written (sic) by men in a strongly paternalistic era when power resided in those who could retain followers" etc.), but my experience with "retired atheist scientists" like you and your colleagues is that you're open to anything but the possibility you may be wrong.